Tazzy12
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A Hatchling Earthworm
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Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/08 15:49
Hello all.
I just recently discovered your forum and have been trying to search it for posts on the use of Neem in vermicomposting, but the search feature doesn?t seem to be working for me.
Does anyone know if this subject has previously been discussed here, and if so, where I might find the thread? And if not, does anyone have any experience/information on using Neem on their worms?
I love Neem and use it A LOT for everything under the sun and heard that it was very good for earthworms, but, I?m having a hard time finding good information on its application in vermiculture. I?m currently testing some Neem Cake on a small worm farm and everything looks good so far, but I need to know what form of Neem is best and in what amounts. Anybody have any suggestions???
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Taz
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redhen
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/08 16:10
I had to do a search to find out what "neem" was. I still do not understand how/why you would use it. Please inform me.
Susan Quinby-Honer
redhen@nc.rr.com
Starve the Landfill...Feed the Earth. |
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Tazzy12
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A Hatchling Earthworm
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/08 16:26
Susan,
I've read several sources that claim that Neem dramatically increases the size and population of worms, in addition to producing superior castings.
Neem has been used for thousands of years in India for pest control and for medicinal purposes. India has done extensive research on Neem and I?ve been trying to contact several professors at two of India?s prominent universities who are actively researching Neem?s use in vermiculture, with no luck to date.
I contacted the folks at Worm Digest for help and they recommended I tap the wealth of wisdom on these forums...So here I am.
Hope this helps.
Taz
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Worm Police
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A Mature Breeder Earthworm
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/08 16:34
Neem is a type of tree grown in Central, and South Asia.
Its used for many things, like soaps, cosmetics, also it has uses to make insecticide and wormers.
http://www.bytheplanet.com/index.htm
http://www.bytheplanet.com/Neem/WhatIsNeem/WhatIsNeem.htm
After the oil has been pressed from the seed kernels, the remaining material is called "neem cake." This material has been used for many centuries throughout India as a soil amendment. Experience has taught farmers there that working the left-over neem cake into the soil of a garden produces larger, healthier plants that have few problems with insect pests.
Several studies were done to find out why plants grew better in soils mixed with neem cake. The studies discovered that neem cake was richer in plant nutrients than manure, killed damaging nematodes, promoted larger populations of earthworms, helped keep nitrogen in the soil available for the plants, and provided significant protection from insects. This combination of effects provides an almost ideal growing condition for the plants (Khan, 1974); (Vizayalakshmi, et al, 1985).
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Tazzy12
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A Hatchling Earthworm
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/08 16:37
For those interested here are the results of several studies I?ve found:
?In greenhouse studies, when neem leaves and seed kernels were incorporated into potting soil containing earthworms (Eiseniafoetida), the number of young worms produced increased 25 percent. In field trials there were no differences in the number of worms, but the average weight of each worm was highest in neem-treated plots. Thus, it seems possible that neem products can favor earthworms, at least under certain conditions.?
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Author - Rossener,J and Zebitz,C.P.w
Reference - The effect of soil treatment with neem products on earthworms 3rd Intl. Neem Conf, Nairobi, Kenya July 1986,72
Neem seed kernels were mixed with soil at 5% conc., earth worms in treated plot soils showed greater weight and lower mortality compared with worms in untreated soils. Average wt. was highest in neem treated plots.
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Gajalakshmi S, Abbasi SA.
Centre for Pollution Control and Energy Technology, Pondicherry University, Kalapet, Pondicherry 605-014, India.
Vermicomposting of neem (Azadirachta indica A. Juss) was accomplished in "high-rate" reactors operated at the earthworm (Eudrilus eugeniae) densities of 62.5 and 75 animals per litre of reactor volume. Contrary to the fears that neem--a powerful nematicide--might not be palatable to the annelids, the earthworms fed voraciously on the neem compost, converting up to 7% of the feed into vermicompost per day. Indeed the worms grew faster and reproduced more rapidly in the neem-fed vermireactors than in the reactors fed with mango leaf litter earlier studied by the authors (Gajalakshmi et al., 2003). Another set of experiments on the growth, flowering, and fruition of brinjal (Solanum melongena) plants with and without fertilization with vermicompost, revealed that the vermicompost had a significantly beneficial impact.
Taz
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redhen
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/08 21:21
Taz..Where do you live?
Susan Quinby-Honer
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Starve the Landfill...Feed the Earth. |
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Tazzy12
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A Hatchling Earthworm
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/09 00:09
In (usually) sunny Northern California.
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Nikki
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A Juvenile Earthworm
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/09 11:20
Hello to Everyone,
I am very, very new to vermicomposting and worm bins, and everything that goes along with it. I honestly never knew anything about it. I'm kind of learning day by day. I was wondering if someone can tell me if Neem is actually good to use in a garden. If so, where is it available?
Also, I have noticed in the past my gardens have a ton of earthworms some years more than others, is this common?
Thank You,
Nikki
"Nature is just enough; but men and women must comprehend and accept her suggestions."
Antoinette Brown Blackwell |
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Tazzy12
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A Hatchling Earthworm
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/09 14:16
Nikki,
Neem is excellent for your garden and plants in general. My plants love it! And it is absolutely safe for humans, animals, beneficial insects, plants, Mother Earth, etc. It is, however, more of a preventative and slow cure than a quick fix. So be prepared to be patient and persistent.
I use Neem for everything I can - insect infestations in my vegetable garden (excellent on white flies), fruit trees (it quickly cured an unknown infestation in my persimmon tree), lawn, flower beds, roses, etc.; flea and tick control on my dogs (my Neem shampoo kills fleas instantly); parasite control and food supplement for my laying hens; mosquito control; fertilizer/soil amendment in my garden and potted plants; in my kitchen cabinets for controlling grain moths, etc., etc., etc.
Plants (and my hens) love it. I?m going to experiment with castings tea and Neem as my plant fertilizer/insect repellent this season.
I buy my Neem products from - http://www.neemresource.com/ . They have very reasonable prices and great customer service. I?ve been very happy with them. They also have a lot of Neem information for those interested.
Taz
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MaryKay
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/09 16:54
Hi,
Which Neem products do you use in the worm bins?
I want to try some Neem in a couple of my bins but not sure if leaf, bark or cake would be the best to use. Any ideas?
MaryKay
In sunny but windy & cold So. CA
www.wonderworms.com
Organic recycling not only improves our soil but our lives as well. |
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Tazzy12
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A Hatchling Earthworm
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/09 17:40
MaryKay,
I am currently researching what form of Neem is *best* and in what amount/ratio is *best* to use on worms. I have come across studies using fresh Neem leaves, Neem cake, or Neem oil. None indicating which is *best* nor, in most cases, clearly stating the amounts/ratios that were used. All had positive results, to varying degrees, in the size, health, and/or reproductive rates of their worms.
From what I?ve been able to gather so far, it seems the big concern would be the potential for damaging cocoons if too much Neem (cake or oil) were added to the bin. The same concern doesn?t seem to apply to fresh Neem leaves, but to get fresh Neem leaves you?ll probably have to grow your own tree. It?s easy to do, I bought several seedlings to facilitate my research and will probably purchase a couple more this season so I can keep my friends and myself in steady supply of Neem materials. Once you start using the stuff and see how well it works you find more and more uses for it. And don?t get me started on the number of friends, family, strangers, friends of friends of strangers , that want to try it for this or that.
I am currently testing Neem cake on a small worm bin and should have results in a few months. So far, they seem extremely happy and prolific.
Hope this helps,
Taz
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Nikki
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A Juvenile Earthworm
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/10 10:07
Taz,
Thank you for the info on the Neem, I appreciate it.
I think I am going to try it this season in my garden and see what results I get.
Does anyone know the reason I get a ton of worms in my garden? It is a veggie garden, and just in the past few years I have noticed more and more. Is this normal or are they just looking for a meal? I don't get that many in my flower gardens maybe just a few. Nothing like my veggies? I thought it was strange because my gardens are next to each other the only thing seperating the two is a 2x4.
Nikki
"Nature is just enough; but men and women must comprehend and accept her suggestions."
Antoinette Brown Blackwell |
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redhen
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/10 10:14
Nikki..Do you put a lot of organic material on your vegetable garden and mulch? What about your flower garden? Do you use any chemical fertilizer or pesticides on you flower garden? The worms will show up when there is something organic for them to eat.
Susan Quinby-Honer
redhen@nc.rr.com
Starve the Landfill...Feed the Earth. |
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Nikki
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A Juvenile Earthworm
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/10 10:34
I use a mix of manure and organic material in both. The only thing I do different is in my veggie garden I sprinkle black pepper on the veggies after they start growing to keep the insects from eating away at them. I dont use any kind of chemicals or pesticides or anything. Other than that all I do is water them.
Nikki
"Nature is just enough; but men and women must comprehend and accept her suggestions."
Antoinette Brown Blackwell |
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redhen
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/10 18:27
If you want more worms than what you see, maybe you could just transplant some to your flowers
Susan Quinby-Honer
redhen@nc.rr.com
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Bubbles
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A Juvenile Earthworm
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/10 18:41
Hey Nikki, Tazzy and everyone!
Could Black Pepper be good for worms?
I'm excited about trying some neem in our COW at work.
I just tried to access the site about Neem Products and it wouldn't open. I found another one, www.bytheplanet.com/neem that has neem leaves or branches, but didn't I see the "cake". I remember that the incense I had with neem seemed to help the fruitfly population disappear. I had no idea that it was so good in the garden!
Anyone from India who has knowledge of using neem?
Thanks!
 Bubbles
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Tazzy12
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A Hatchling Earthworm
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/10 19:13
Bubbles,
I just alerted the folks at www.neemresource.com to the problem with their site and hopefully they'll have it fixed soon. They really are a great resource for products and information and Usha (owner) is terrific to work with, so keep trying. She's a font of information and has been invaluable in my Neem research.
Please let me know how your Neem/COW experiment goes and if I can be of any help, just let me know.
Taz
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Nikki
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A Juvenile Earthworm
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/13 11:29
Hello everybody,
I don't know if black pepper is good for worms or not. I do know that I only sprinkle it on my veggies and I seem to have a ton of worms in that garden. Could this be the reason for my veggie garden having so many worms.....? I guess I will have to do some research to find out. When I do find out I will update.
I do have to tell something cute that happened over the weekend just for everyone to know you can never be too young: I have a four year little girl that can not stand the site of any kind of bug, insect, worm, or whatever. She usually tries to smash it or scream at it. Since my intrest in worms she's not afraid of them anymore. I try to teach her the value of them,anyway it was raining over the weekend and my daughter saw a worm in my driveway,she ran out in the rain and picked it up and started telling the worm "it needs to go back in the grass so it won't be hungry and help make our grass grow so she can play in it". I thought that was too cute so I thought I would share it
Nikki
"Nature is just enough; but men and women must comprehend and accept her suggestions."
Antoinette Brown Blackwell |
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Nikki
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A Juvenile Earthworm
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/13 11:45
Hi Bubbles,
OK so I looked up info on black pepper and worms, This kind of has me guessing. They say black pepper will destroy worms. I dont get this because I only use black pepper on my veggies and in that garden is where I have the most worms?? Maybe because I carefully sprinkle it only on the leaves and the veggies themselves and hold a section of tin foil underneath so it's not all over. I dont know. So should I keep doing what I'm doing and see if there is a change in my worms in the garden or stop. I would hate to do any damage to the worms that are helping my garden grow.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Nikki
"Nature is just enough; but men and women must comprehend and accept her suggestions."
Antoinette Brown Blackwell |
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Bob Ingram
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/17 05:19
Girl, I say if it's not broke, don't fix it! You're not putting pepper over all of your garden, and the worms have plenty of room to avoid what's bad for them..a bin where they're captive is a different deal. Seeya
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MaryKay
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/17 10:49
Tazzy,
Could you give more info on how much neem cake you put in your bins and what size your bins are? Have you notice any difference in the worms? Have you made any neem leaf tea and sprayed on the worm beds?
I'm looking forward to try some on my worms beds.
MaryKay
www.wonderworms.com
Organic recycling not only improves our soil but our lives as well. |
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Tazzy12
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/17 15:05
MaryKay,
I currently have one test bin which is 16" x 22" x 39" (6 cu. ft.). When I set it up, I put in layers of wet, shredded newspaper (30%); wet leaves (30%); horse manure (40%); 3 lbs. of Neem cake; and 2 lbs. of worms.
In my research I?ve come across the use of Neem cake in proportions of 3-5% by weight and/or volume to bedding. My decision to use 3 lbs. (approx. 1?% by volume) was based on my concerns of possible detrimental effects to the cocoons. I also layered in the Neem cake out of direct contact with the worms when I introduced them to the bin, I let the worms work their way to the Neem.
The little guys seem to be very happy and prolific, so I think the 3-5% by volume/weight would be ok and I intend to use that amount in my next set of tests. I would also like to get more test bins set up to try Neem oil and leaves, but available time & space are issues at the moment.
I?ve contacted my Neem supplier (Usha at http://www.neemresource.com/ ) for pricing and availability on bulk Neem leaf, because my Neem trees just aren?t big enough yet to supply my worm habit. If you find yourself enjoying Neem as much as I do, and you have the space and inclination, growing your own tree(s) might be the way to go. The best place I?ve found to get seedlings and young trees is from www.neemtreefarms.com . Ask for Vicki, she?s great, and can answer any questions you may have.
Please keep me updated on your progress and, as always, if I can be of anymore assistance, just let me know.
Taz
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Tazzy12
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/03/17 15:16
Does anyone know how to delete a post? I hit the back button in my browser and it duplicated my last post on this thread. I only see an edit button to change a post, as I have done here, not to delete it completely.
Thanks,
Taz
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CarolV
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A Juvenile Earthworm
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Re:Neem & Vermicomposting - 2006/07/02 18:48
I brought this up again because there is some good info in this thread.
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