Kori
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A Juvenile Earthworm
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European Night Crawlers - 2007/10/31 19:23
I have ENC's and also red worms in seperate bins. When ever I feed the red worms they are right on top and the food dissapears quite quickly. When I feed the ENC's the food sits there for a long time and I never see them unless I dig.
When I did research on the two types of worms I was sure it said that the ENC's would eat quickly and were top feeders.
I guess my question is, is this usual or am I experiencing something different.
The worms do seem to be doing ok.
Thanks
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Mrs.M
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/01 04:29
My enc's are feeding well. They love watermelon, bananas and boiled red cabbage. I'm thinking softness is the key. My enc's perked up in their bins when I mixed in a couple of pounds of potting soil into their bedding, which I do not do with the ef's. Their castings are plentiful but they don't breed like EF's.(i'm not raising the enc's for castings anyway, but they do provide some nice,large, dark castings) I also leave the enc's alone as much as possible. They're very sensitive creatures and from what I've read dig tunnels, lubricate the sides of their tunnels with slime and the slime hardens leaving them a little dwelling place, so upsetting them too often messes up their little habitats.
I took someone's advice on this forum and washed & drained my newspaper in a mesh laundry bag before using as bedding and it keeps it from gumming up so much.I add a little wood ash and crushed egg shells as well.
I lined the bottom of a 30" deep tote with wet burlap, then the worms and bedding(wet newspaper & potting soil) to about 20", covered that with wet burlap, topped that with moist newspaper and that topped with wet burlap. When I feed I pull back the top burlap and wet paper and lay the food on the middle burlap and cover it back up so I'm actually feeding them in the middle of the bin but on top of their bedding. When feeding purple cabbage if it turns pink the bin is acid and that's only happened once so I started introducing a little wood ash and keeping the moisture content lower.
I lay a piece of bread on top to catch mites and a little jar of apple juice with a plastic film on top with a hole punched in it catches fruit flies. If the burlap dries out I shake a little dechlorinated water onto the burlap from a little bottle I punched holes in the top of. Since I started using the burlap and washing the paper the moisture seems to be easier to control. Enc's seem happy. Hope some of this helps. If I'm tempted to play with the worms I bother the ef's. [i]
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thewormguys
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A Juvenile Earthworm
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/02 10:50
Wow I usually checked on my Ens daily.
Are you warm enough? Do you have enough food and water?
Enough bedding? etc... I had to stop at the end of Sept because I was busy with Halloween decorations. I checked on them last night and man/woman they had been busy!!
They have babies every where and "Black gold".
I swear they yelled "Hey who turned on the light?!"
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gnosnhoj
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A Protected Species Earthworm
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/02 20:53
Kori wrote:
I guess my question is, is this usual or am I experiencing something different. The worms do seem to be doing ok.
Every herd in every bin is different, Kori, regardless of species. You'd think that shouldn't be the case, but it is. Variables that we don't see (too much or too little of this or that) can make a difference to your herd. It is up to you to determine what each bin needs in their specific little environment and find the balance.
If your ENC herd is finding your bedding more microbially tasty than what you're adding, &/or more comfortable moisture-wise, that's where they're gonna be. What and how are you feeding?
Smaller chow bits will get processed quicker, and ENCs appear to like their environment a bit damper than EFs.
I'd cut back on your ENC feeding until you've figured out what they can get through on a regular basis.
Y'all have fun, whatever you're doing.
Gary
Hopkinsville, KY |
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Kori
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A Juvenile Earthworm
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/03 10:16
gnosnhoj,
I am feeding them ground corn stuff from the elevator in town. I have also fed them rabbit poo, which they do seem to eat slowly. There is also potato peel in the bin but I don't expect that to dissapear too quickly.
I gave them more water yesterday (with a watering can instead of misting with a water bottle) because the top of the bedding seemed to be drying out so quickly, and this morning when I took a peek there were worms on top so maybe it has been too dry for them.
Mitzi,
I am going to have to try the trap for fruit flies. I had a bunch come with my first delivery of worms and they are just getting worse as time goes by.
As far as the bread. Do you lay it on top of your bedding or the cover? I noticed some mites this morning on a dead worm that somehow got on top of my covering.
Thanks,
Kori
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gnosnhoj
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/03 12:29
Kori wrote:
I am feeding them ground corn stuff from the elevator in town. I have also fed them rabbit poo, which they do seem to eat slowly. There is also potato peel in the bin but I don't expect that to dissapear too quickly.
You might try diversifying their chow a bit.
I gave them more water yesterday (with a watering can instead of misting with a water bottle) because the top of the bedding seemed to be drying out so quickly...
I'd be careful with that. Just because the top of a bin is dry doesn't make it so all the way to the bottom. I dig deep to check my bin moisture levels. If the bottom gets too soggy, I'll toss it like a salad, but only after removing any unprocessed chow.
Y'all have fun, whatever you're doing.
Gary
Hopkinsville, KY |
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slim7309
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/05 17:34
Mitzi,Why are you breeding the ENC's if not for castings? or are they cuter then the Red Worms?.. Slim
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Mrs.M
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/08 04:47
slim7309 wrote:
Mitzi,Why are you breeding the ENC's if not for castings? or are they cuter then the Red Worms?.. Slim
Oh. I love their castings but the primary reason I'm raising them is for introduction into flower beds and gardens with worm tube feeding stations. I'll be selling these next summer at the farmer's market.
Take a 6" pvc pipe, 2'8" long. Cap the bottom. Drill some holes around the lower bottom portion sides. This is buried to 2 ft deep with the top 8" left sticking out of the ground & the inside left hollow. The worms with some bedding is then placed in the bottom. A screen is placed on top of the tube. The worms will migrate out of the tube through the holes you drilled into the bed but the tube will continue to be a feeding station for the worms, where they are fed just like in your worm bin. I'll also be selling fresh worm tea at the market. I'm painting the top outside of the tube that sticks out of the ground with acrylic patio paint(flowers,vege's, grass whatever) so they'll look better in the bed or garden.
I'm raising the ef's specifically for the casting's since they are such prolific breeders.
and....I do find the nightcrawlers charming, plus I can eat them if the world's economy collapses 
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slim7309
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/09 14:36
Mitzi, That's cute & I loved your answer too ... Slim
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gnosnhoj
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/09 18:59
mitzi wrote:
...the primary reason I'm raising them is for introduction into flower beds and gardens with worm tube feeding stations...
Interesting marketing angle. What are the pros & cons?
Y'all have fun, whatever you're doing.
Gary
Hopkinsville, KY |
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Mrs.M
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/09 23:43
gnosnhoj wrote:
mitzi wrote:
...the primary reason I'm raising them is for introduction into flower beds and gardens with worm tube feeding stations...
Interesting marketing angle. What are the pros & cons?
The pros are I can make some money, hopefully; and help educate the people in this area about the benefits of going organic. This area is agricultural and the people are kind of behind on letting go of the chemicals around here and I want to help change that. I'm providing educational brochures with the tubes.
The cons are it's going to be a hard sell and I'm not sure the worms will survive winters here. I'll have to provide restocking options in the spring for their tubes, in case none of the worms or eggs survive the winters.
This is all a big experiment and it won't begin until next spring so we'll see how it goes.
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gnosnhoj
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/10 10:24
mitzi wrote:
...the primary reason I'm raising them is for introduction into flower beds and gardens with worm tube feeding stations...This is all a big experiment and it won't begin until next spring so we'll see how it goes.
Mitzi, I'd do a bit more research on ENCs.
Although they are named 'nightcrawler', they are surface dwellers much like EF. Unless a garden has regularly high levels of organic chow breaking down, like in a bin, it is highly unlikely they'll survive and proliferate in a standard garden bed.
With your feeding tube idea, I think they'd just congregate in the top 6" of it and not work through the garden as you anticipate. Native worms, however, would probably appreciate the feedstock too.
If it does work for you, great. Just offering my thoughts.
Y'all have fun, whatever you're doing.
Gary
Hopkinsville, KY |
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Mrs.M
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/13 07:44
gnosnhoj wrote:
mitzi wrote:
...the primary reason I'm raising them is for introduction into flower beds and gardens with worm tube feeding stations...This is all a big experiment and it won't begin until next spring so we'll see how it goes.
Mitzi, I'd do a bit more research on ENCs.
Although they are named 'nightcrawler', they are surface dwellers much like EF. Unless a garden has regularly high levels of organic chow breaking down, like in a bin, it is highly unlikely they'll survive and proliferate in a standard garden bed.
With your feeding tube idea, I think they'd just congregate in the top 6" of it and not work through the garden as you anticipate. Native worms, however, would probably appreciate the feedstock too.
If it does work for you, great. Just offering my thoughts.
I thought they were tunnelers. That's what I've read everywhere. I''ll check it out before I make any attempts to sell them. I've asked all over the place about native worms and can't seem to get any answers from anyone. I even wrote to a professor at Texas A&M and received a terse reply as though I were wasting his time writing to him. (I guess I probably was ) anyway. I've read over and over that nightcrawlers will tunnel to 6' feet deep. I've noticed there is a lot of conflicting info via the web about worms.
Thanks for the info and I'll research it further(or try to anyway). What kind of worms would you recommend for this purpose without the info on native West Texas worms available? I can always sell my enc's as fish bait if this doesn't pan out but I am at least going to introduce them into my own lawn and garden. Someone here told me if they die out the eggs should hatch in the spring.
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gnosnhoj
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/13 20:45
mitzi wrote:
I thought they were tunnelers. That's what I've read everywhere.
NANCs (North American Nightcrawlers) are tunnelers. I haven't dug that deep  into the scientific naming of worms, but they are divided by type based on the levels they populate, some being surface, some sub-surface, and some deep-dwellers who only pop up to grab a munchie to take back to the burrow.
ENCs would not be touted as bin-suitable composters if they were deep-dwellers.
In my experience, they are very similar to EF, although they are somewhat larger and have a different average reproductive rate.
The best thing I ever did when I decided to start worming was read, from inception, this forum and the other that I see you've joined (there are more out there...), along with a lot of question-asking, Googling etc. Much was revealed based on posters' experiences as well as quoted scientific studies.
I've asked all over the place about native worms and can't seem to get any answers from anyone.
If you have native worms, I expect they will like any organics introduced, but I'm not about to coach you on care or raising them for harvest. I just try to make sure my garden & yard soil have what they need and leave 'em to do what they do. There always appear to be more where I've added compost, either thermal or vermi...'course that's where I dig the most too  .
My raised veggie beds, a couple of them >24" above grade, are full of natives. I've not found any ENCs or EFs in there from season to season, even though I'm sure the vc I've spread about contained viable cocoons and probably a few young 'uns in the mix as well.
Y'all have fun, whatever you're doing.
Gary
Hopkinsville, KY |
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Mrs.M
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A Juvenile Earthworm
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/16 06:33
gnosnhoj wrote:
mitzi wrote:
I thought they were tunnelers. That's what I've read everywhere.
NANCs (North American Nightcrawlers) are tunnelers. I haven't dug that deep into the scientific naming of worms, but they are divided by type based on the levels they populate, some being surface, some sub-surface, and some deep-dwellers who only pop up to grab a munchie to take back to the burrow.
ENCs would not be touted as bin-suitable composters if they were deep-dwellers.
In my experience, they are very similar to EF, although they are somewhat larger and have a different average reproductive rate.
The best thing I ever did when I decided to start worming was read, from inception, this forum and the other that I see you've joined (there are more out there...), along with a lot of question-asking, Googling etc. Much was revealed based on posters' experiences as well as quoted scientific studies.
I've asked all over the place about native worms and can't seem to get any answers from anyone.
If you have native worms, I expect they will like any organics introduced, but I'm not about to coach you on care or raising them for harvest. I just try to make sure my garden & yard soil have what they need and leave 'em to do what they do. There always appear to be more where I've added compost, either thermal or vermi...'course that's where I dig the most too .
My raised veggie beds, a couple of them >24" above grade, are full of natives. I've not found any ENCs or EFs in there from season to season, even though I'm sure the vc I've spread about contained viable cocoons and probably a few young 'uns in the mix as well.
I'm glad you've straightened me out on this. I still love the enc's and they do produce large, dark castings and mine eat more than my ef's so I'll sell them to the fishers and use the castings. I'm not giving up on my tube idea though, I just need to identify an appropriate variety and experiment with them in outdoor worm graves or something. I'm going to experiment trying to lure some natives to a spot in my yard, to see what I may have down there. I am reading about two kinds, Aporrectodea longa (long worm) and Lumbricus terrestris(canadian nightcrawler?). I know it's too hot here in the summer for the cnc, but I'm not sure about the long worm.
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gnosnhoj
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/16 22:32
mitzi wrote:
I'm going to experiment trying to lure some natives to a spot in my yard, to see what I may have down there.
A simple pile of leaves (shredded is better) oughta show ya what your natives look like. A hot compost pile should draw even more. Flip the edges with a spading fork or some such after a few weeks.
I have a 6x8' pile of leaves & cow poop out back that has been there since last fall, and I'm almost afraid to dig deeply into it  . I've just been peeling off the top to help feed my outside bin.
Have faith, and be willing to adapt to what works for your worms.
Y'all have fun, whatever you're doing.
Gary
Hopkinsville, KY |
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Mrs.M
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/16 23:41
Shoot dang! What am I thinking? (apparantly not much ) I have a hot compost pile already. I guess I could just dig down to the bottom of it and see if I got worms. Thanks.
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Kori
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2007/11/17 11:14
hey mitzi
Thanks for the idea of the apple juice. I have traped a lot of fruit flies. They were really getting out of hand.
Thanks again.
And thanks everyone for all the information I get here on this forum.
Kori
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Paratrooper
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2009/07/03 23:17
Looks like I'm resurecting a long ignored series of posts not to mention ZERO posts for quite a while in any subject . I would like to grow some ENC's since we have NO native worms here in Northern Arizona . My attempts to raise redworms ended in disaster since we average 8% humidity so I was constantly trying to keep them moist and sometimes to a fault . I have a really big pile of washed manure getting ready for next spring . I would wonder the following . Can I just introduce them to a manure pile which I water a lot and hope they survive ? My manure is goat and horse .I will also want to introduce them into my garden at the right time . We are raising veggies on tables in a greenhouse that are in bags of top soil laying flat on their sides . A hole is cut and the stuff is planted . This was featured in Mother Earth News . It seems to work .Maybe I could throw a few in those bags as well . I am also thinking of introducing them to some cold frames after December . My depth will be about a foot and the sun shines right on them every day . Any advice out there ?
Tom
Kingman Arizona |
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Larry C
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Re:European Night Crawlers - 2009/07/20 02:06
I guess this is now an old site and everyone has moved over to the new one:
http://www.wormdigest.org/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,57/
Not sure why the old doesn't connect you to the new one.
Larry
Post edited by: Larry C, at: 2009/07/20 02:09
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