catfriend
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A Fertile Cocoon
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Are commercial rose petals killing my worms?? - 2006/01/10 01:21
I'm afraid we may have poisoned our little wormies inadvertantly.
Here's the situation: We are new to the worm world. Set up a bin two weeks ago using coir, aged manure, shredded office paper. The dampness seems about right-- like a wrung out sponge. And I've read Mary Appelhof's book, cover to cover....
On Sunday we buried a pound of assorted items including a bunch of rose petals from roses purchased at the grocery store.
Today, I noticed a dead worm on a petal near the surface, plus we've seen other dead worms here and there in the bin.
TOnight my husband excavated and removed everything we'd buried on Sunday (all in one corner) and sadly, we found quite a few dead or dying worms in that area. One worm, it looked like the surface of its 'skin' was 'fizzling,' says my husband.
I suspect one of two things:
a. the roses were filled with various pesticides, killing the worms, or,
b. we'd buried too much food in one place-- the smell was unpleasant as we excavated, and the texture was slimy in parts, leading to an anaerobic situation.
So here's my questions:
a: are commercially grown flowers a bad thing for worms?
b. if so, could we have contaminated the entire bin--will the few remaining worms survive?
c. will anaerobic conditions kill worms?
d. what's the best way to feed vegetable scraps to worms- spread across the surface of the bedding? buried in one spot? other?
I'm looking forward to hearing from any of you who can shed light on this sad situation. We feel very bad about losing our little new wormies.... <<deep sigh>>.
catfriend
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Bob Ingram
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A Protected Species Earthworm
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Re:Are commercial rose petals killing my worms?? - 2006/01/10 06:33
Hi, Cat. I don't know about the roses, I suppose pesticide could be a part, but the anaerobic condition is a definite killer. Thoroughly aerate the bedding with a hand rake, or use your fingersadd dry bedding...paper, coir, etc. and don't feed for several days. The vegetable scraps, even the roses were adding lots of moisture to the bin. In a home bin I'd pocket feed the scraps in varied locations in the bin. When you figure the worms will eat 1/2 up to their body weight per day, you must factor in the fact they eat their bedding as well. I'd feed relatively small amounts of scraps and not refeed until the worms are in the last feeding. Don't give up, you'll do fine with this....Seeya, Bob
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redhen
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Re:Are commercial rose petals killing my worms?? - 2006/01/10 09:24
Cat..How big is your bin? How many worms do you think you started with? (A pound of rose petals is a lot of rose petals!) I put lots of flowers from stores in my bins and don't think pesticides are the problem. If you noticed a bad smell, that's your biggest problem, as it is a sure sign of anaerobic conditions, and something the worms can not thrive in. I have many different types of plastic and in-ground bins. IMHO..top feeding works best as the worms are surface feeders and this gives more surface area for them to "belly up to the bar". Also pocket feeding can heat things up quickly and that can be another big problem to your captive audience of worms. There is no place for them to go to get away from that heat and they will not survive.
If I was to guess...(and of course it's just that), I would guess heat was a problem and the roses released a lot of water, creating an anaerobic, slimy pocket. (Lovely, right? ) Have you ever added a huge amount of grass clippings to a compost pile? I did..once. I thought if a little was good, I could really do great things with a big bunch. What I got was a very hot, slimy, stinky mess.
Now I think balance and my world is a better place.
Susan Quinby-Honer
redhen@nc.rr.com
Starve the Landfill...Feed the Earth. |
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catfriend
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A Fertile Cocoon
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Re:Are commercial rose petals killing my worms?? - 2006/01/12 00:50
Hi Bob and Redhen,
I feel certain that you're both right: we did create an anaerobic condition. Dumb, dumb, dumb on my part! I shoulda known better than to concentrate so much in such a small area.
Our bin is smallish: 1.5 ft. L x 1 ft. W.
Like I said, we removed all the offending material, and then put the worms in a quiet, vibration free spot in our utility room. They have plenty of shredded paper to eat, not to mention the bedding and bits of food from a week ago.
I snuck in and took a peak this morning. No suicides, and only one worm crawling around on the inside of the lid. Everyone else must have been underground doing worm stuff.
I listened and heard a faint 'snap-crackle-pop' sound, which I presume is the sound of worms at work.
So, my fingers are crossed that the survivors will forgive our mistakes and go forth and multiply.
Got another few questions, though: The anaerobic section was in one corner of the bin. Wouldn't worms move to the other corners of the bin to get away? Or was that what drove them up the sides and out of the bin to their deaths? Does the anaerobic 'stench' start to permeate through the entire bin?
cat-friend
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Bob Ingram
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Re:Are commercial rose petals killing my worms?? - 2006/01/12 05:06
Anaerobic bacteria live in the absence of oxygen..the undesirable elements created will permeate the bin. Gone unchecked, you would have lost them all. They should recover just fine. With the lid on, do they have adequate ventilation? Seeya, Bob
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redhen
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Re:Are commercial rose petals killing my worms?? - 2006/01/12 09:06
When anaerobic conditions happen most of your worms will head for better conditions, to survive. That being said, I have found worms seemingly content with conditions mildly anaerobic. Go figure. For me, and having bins indoors, I opt for aerobic and no foul smell.
Oh..and yes, I love to hear the Rice Crispy sounds coming from a very happy worm bin.
Susan Quinby-Honer
redhen@nc.rr.com
Starve the Landfill...Feed the Earth. |
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sauce man
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A Juvenile Earthworm
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Re:Are commercial rose petals killing my worms?? - 2006/01/12 17:00
HI everyone, I have also used kitchen scraps (frozen first) that have been ground up with leaves, grass and very well aged compost which is a little bit of everything. I then dry the mix a couple of days on a piece of chicken wire and then put it in zip lock bags and allow it to age in a cool area until I need it. It is quite anerobic when put in. I only put it on the top of the bedding in about a quarter of the surface space covered lightly with damp newsprint. My worms go nuts and in about two days they have rendered it down very well. I know this because when I put it in it is in chunks. Its also nice to have food on hand so I am not having to mess around all the time with moldy food scraps in my kitchen. Ive turned it into a couple hour job every two weeks and best of all no foul odors. I think you will figure out what works best for you and come up with a plan. Glad to hear your guys are rebounding. TOM
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catfriend
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A Fertile Cocoon
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Re:Are commercial rose petals killing my worms?? - 2006/01/13 18:02
Hi Bob,
Yes, I believe they have enough air with the lid on-- there are three holes, roughly 2" diameter, that are blocked with a perforated plastic apple-with-worm coming-out disks. The disks snap into the holes and provide secure ventilation. Or so the theory goes.
That said, I've been sneaking peaks at the worms every other day, so they also get air from me opening the lid!
And Tom, I like the sound of your worm food prep. THat'll speed up the process somewhat, for them. How do you go about grinding up the frozen kitchen scraps, by the way?
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sauce man
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A Juvenile Earthworm
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Re:Are commercial rose petals killing my worms?? - 2006/01/13 21:54
Hi, I purchased a relatively cheap antique style hand operated grinder from northern tools.com They are the kind I remember my grandmother using to grind cranberries. I throw everything into it in small handfuls including the grass and dried leaves. It comes out looking like mud and that is why I dry it out a little so it is crumbly. I also put eggshells and a small amount of sifted (to remove rocks)topsoil from my garden to help aid the worms digestion. I think I am going to abandon the zip lock baggies and put the food in a old plastic cooler so maybe it wont be so anerobic. I will probably try both methods and see how it works. I love expermenting. Also you might be able to find one of these grinders at an antique store or a flea market for cheap!!!! Just make sure its not already worn out. Glad I could help. TOM
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