redhen
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Perionyx excavatus..PE's - 2006/01/17 22:22
I may truly be opening a "can of worms" here, but I have some questions. (Larry in Illinois, I hope you chime in with your experience). Does anyone grow PE's in bins with success? I have bins in contact with the ground, and so I can not say I have "redworms" only. I know there are PE's naturally finding their way into those in-ground bins. They are great composting worms for outdoor bins, I am sure. Bringing those worms mixed with my EF's to my indoor bins, I think I am observing the PE's are out competing my EF's for food. The PE's also, when the least disturbed, migrate out of the bin, with or without lights on.
I have ordered worms for my indoor bins and have found some mixed species, I think. Not sure if they are PE's, but they act like them. They are young and do not have the irredescent sheen to them. They are longer, quicker and thinner than the Ef's. When I weigh these guys out, they start moving out, in full light. They settle after a few days but I still have to have the lights on and do not disturb them.
Redworms are so much easier to deal with and happier to be in a bin situation. I have ENC's also that are happy campers in a bin. My ENC's are kept specifically in exclusive bins. I thought I was doing the same with the redworms, but am now questioning the species being introduced to those redworm bins. Should I be concerned? As far as I think, outdoor, in-ground bin populations would include whatever native species, that find their way to the food/bin. If, however I am trying to help folks build successful indoor bins, redworms or ENC's are the only species, I know that will happily do the job.
Susan Quinby-Honer
redhen@nc.rr.com
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Bob Ingram
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Re:Perionyx excavatus..PE's - 2006/01/18 02:46
Susan,the disadvantage of the PE is the wildness, however they're an eating machine and very prolific. As casting producers they work extremely well. Home bins? Eisenia hortensis(Euros),Eisenia fetida(red worms)and Eisenia andreus(red worms nearly indistinguishable from E.fetida) are my choices as they are docile and tolerate handling well....Seeya, Bob
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Michael D
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Re:Perionyx excavatus..PE's - 2006/01/20 03:12
Redhen,
I started my bins with red worms four years ago. The first pound I bought from dowm south and was a mix with many PE's. The secound pound was from Montana and pure Red wigglers.
The PEs quickly took over the bin but made great byproduct. At that time the big pyrimid worm companys colapsed and the majority of the worms on the market were PEs. The old worm digest forum was real conserned about PE worms.
At that time I decided to clean up my bins. It was real easy in Montana. Put it outside and let the cold temps take care of them. The PEs will quickly die in temps as low as 45 deg.
One week in 30 to 40 deg temps the PEs look like what used to be called protein poisoning and die.
If you want to find out if you have PEs, get a group of worms and put them in the frezer for 20 min. The PEs will quickly Show tell tail signs.
Looking back on it now the PEs did what I wanted. They eat and reproduce like no other worm. Try and put them on a hook, good luck just trying to catch them. It they escape, they have left so many eggs it does not matter.
Michael D
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redhen
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Re:Perionyx excavatus..PE's - 2006/01/20 08:07
Michael...thank you so much for sharing that information. That was just what I wanted to know. I will try the test and let you all know what I find out.
The biggest reason for finding this out, is because PE's are not like redworms when in a bin. They will take off, for what seems to be no good reason. (I am sure they have their own wormy reasons..but they aren't talking ) When I set bins up with people who want to keep worms in plastic bins, inside perhaps, or who want to have worms bins to dispose of their household food waste and have free fishing bait, they will be looking for redworms or european nightcrawlers.
If, for those of you ordering worms from a grower, the worms you receive are not redworms or even a mix of reds and PE's, you are not going to be happy or as successful with vermicomposting in bins. These PE's will outcompete your redworms. They are not a bad worm. They eat a lot and produce castings for your gardening use. It's just if you are wanting redworms, this is kind of a heads up to watch out for what you actually end up with.
Susan Quinby-Honer
redhen@nc.rr.com
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sauce man
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Re:Perionyx excavatus..PE's - 2006/01/20 23:21
Susan, What do PE's look like? I dont know if I could tell what they look like. I assume I have red wigglers but I guess if you havent seen alot of species ya might not know what you have for sure. Thanks Tom
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Jerry
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Re:Perionyx excavatus..PE's - 2006/01/21 00:42
Tom,
You are right. Most of the people growing worms do not know one from the other. If it looks red in color it must be a red wiggler is what most think. Red wiggler is a term used very loosely. PE's will have a very iridescent color to them, kind of a bluish sheen.
I have grown them for five years or more in bins to produce castings without any poblems. I have never had lights on them. Yes, the colder temperatures will get rid of them for you. They are more of a tropical worm.
They can stand the Texas heat very well.
Jerry
www.jetcompost.com or www.compostsolutions.com
THE SIGNIFIGANT PROBLEMS WE FACE CANNOT BE SOLVED AT THE LEVEL OF THINKING WE WERE AT WHEN WE CREATED THEM |
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redhen
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Re:Perionyx excavatus..PE's - 2006/01/21 10:15
Jerry..One of the most important reasons for wanting to know if PE's were finding their way into my indoor bins, is because if I have people buying "redworms" from me to compost and to have free bait, they are not going to be happy with PE's. If PE's find their way into these bins they outcompete the reds and take over. One thing I have noticed, that all the worms born into my indoor bins are very happy right where they are. If I bring in new worms, I must keep lights on for some time. I have these guys crawling out of the tray that I am weighing them in. PE's are not as easy as reds or ENC's in a bin situation, although they are eating machines.
Sauceman...and others reading this post..I am going to start a new thread with a website that has some terrific images of different types of worm species. (I have asked to have a page like this on WD but no luck..yet  )
Susan Quinby-Honer
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Larry in Illinois
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Re:Perionyx excavatus..PE's - 2006/01/22 08:04
I have found that for the most part when a worm decides to leave a bin (irregardless of the species) it's usually because of it being disturb too much or something has gone wrong with the environment of the bin or both.
I have had bins in the indoors with PE's in them and once I learned not to disturb the bin too much and keep the environment of the bin to their liking I had no problem with them. But they are like most of their cousins, with the exceptions of the species Bob mentioned, in that they are quicker to leave the bin if their disturb or not all is well. While cold may kill the live mature worms it's not likely you will get rid of all of them as I have them outside in my bin (along with other species) and I don't take great pains to keep the temp up in the bin.
My advice, for the most part, is to get one of the species Bob mentioned. Be sure to ask for a species by scientific name (Eisenia fetida, Eisenia hortensis, etc) and not street name (red wiggler, jumper, nightcrawler, etc)
At one point in their life cycle they AAALLLL look the same and most folks can't tell one from the other so get them from someone like Bob, Jerry, MaryKay, Dorothy, Larry (not me) just to name a few, that will get you the worm your looking for.
PE's are great but I think they're for someone whose been in the business for awhile, knows what they're getting and are prepared to deal with it.
As for my PE's they can, out eat, out produce, out swim, out climb, out cuss and OUT FISH anything on the market.
Larry
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redhen
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Re:Perionyx excavatus..PE's - 2006/01/22 12:13
Larry...I must have some of the cousins of your PE's because I was down working in the bins and I heard the cussing..sounded like sailors were in there....
Susan Quinby-Honer
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Bob Ingram
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Re:Perionyx excavatus..PE's - 2006/01/22 14:04
Shame onya, Susan! Worm's learn the language from those most around em....now Larry, being an ex marine, is understandable, but you.......? hehe
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redhen
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Re:Perionyx excavatus..PE's - 2006/01/22 17:27
Whoops..busted..
Susan Quinby-Honer
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Bob Ingram
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Re:Perionyx excavatus..PE's - 2006/01/22 18:34
Gotcha, lol.
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loonyhiker
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Re:Perionyx excavatus..PE's - 2006/01/22 20:21
Bob,
That explains why mine were making all the other worms get in a straight line and talk in their "indoor voices"! Of course it was funny when one of them told on the other one for not raising his...hand.
loony
(the crazy teacher!)
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Larry in Illinois
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Re:Perionyx excavatus..PE's - 2006/01/23 07:12
Well, Susan, seeing as how there is no such thing as an ex-Marine (once a Marine always a Marine) and I taught my PE's all they know there is no way they can sound like sailors, so they can't be relatives of mine. However, if they show a liking for PBR's and brats with oninons and green peppers they can't be all bad.
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gnosnhoj
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Re:Perionyx excavatus..PE's - 2006/01/23 21:22
Larry - glad you jumped back in here with the 'ex-Marine" thing - "Semper Fi" ain't just a motto. Even though I'm 'only' Army, I got your 6 covered  !
I grew up in Harvey, IL, just South of Chi, BTW.
Y'all have fun, whatever you're doing.
Gary
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